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foreign

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well hello good evening and welcome to what I\h
think is a very important and historic edition\h\h

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of need to know tonight literally just minutes ago\h
I finished the studio with news Nation where we\h\h

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interviewed Dave grush and then did the post show\h
analysis and here to join me in the post-mortem is\h\h

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my colleague and good friend Bryce zabel from Los\h
Angeles Ross it was a it was an amazing night for\h\h

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you for sure because I really enjoyed you getting\h
the chance to tell the expanded version in the\h\h

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hour that followed the special um but also I have\h
to say I enjoyed seeing you in a long dark jacket\h\h

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in a tie standing in cold weather tell me oh my\h
God it was so cold I mean um it's quite funny well\h\h

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in the early days of news Gathering as you know\h
Bryce we all used to use big OB trucks outside\h\h

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broadcast trucks with microwave relays and um\h
these days they all do it with um a device that's\h\h

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um about the size of a book you know really tiny\h
little device that's got SIM cards in it and the\h\h

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trouble is I live in such a remote part of the\h
New South Wales Countryside here in Australia that\h\h

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um the mobile phones weren't strong enough where\h
I live so I had to bolt to a town about 20 minutes\h\h

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away we were on a big hill which unfortunately\h
is very very very cold so I was standing there\h\h

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in my very big thick jacket and it was about five\h
degrees Centigrade very very cold day and what a\h\h

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relief to be back inside my warm home and what a\h
relief to have that under the belt frankly I think\h\h

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we have to point out to everyone by the way we are\h
doing this literally minutes after this thing so\h\h

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I've literally just driven home I've literally\h
just popped in the door after coming home from\h\h

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um from the shoot and the main reason you\h
decided I'm sorry go I was just going to\h\h

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say the main reason we did we decided not to\h
go live is that we weren't sure you would be\h\h

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able to get home in your car sure uh and so at\h
least uh you're you're back and uh and that's\h\h

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good tell me so by the way on a technical basis\h
when you were standing there you have the ifbn\h\h

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but there's there's multiple people talking it's\h
you know there's just a lot going on in their\h\h

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studio and with people being pulled in were you\h
able to figure out who was talking all the time\h\h

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were you were you clear I mean it just looks so\h
so challenging it's um it is a hard gig because\h\h

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um you have a little bead that goes into your ear\h
and uh uh it's delivered by a mobile phone signal\h\h

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so it's pretty crackly but um look it all seems to\h
have worked I mean uh one of the times I couldn't\h\h

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actually hear the question that was being asked\h
so I I'd kind of conceived what I thought the\h\h

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question was probably going to be and tried to\h
answer it as best as I could and as well as that\h\h

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we were right next to a dog park so every now and\h
then a big fluffy dog would run through the scene\h\h

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where we were and then you do get these rubber\h
knickers that come and sort of stand and sort\h\h

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of stand behind the camera and try and get in the\h
way but look just to explain to our audience the\h\h

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reason this is such an important night is because\h
um as you and I discussed in our previous episode\h\h

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um I've secured an interview with a very\h
important witness a guy called Dave grush\h\h

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who's a former until April Military Intelligence\h
very senior Military Intelligence officer with\h\h

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access to literally the the most important\h
and sensitive secrets in the US government\h\h

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and what he was telling us about and the\h
story that aired tonight on news Nation\h\h

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was that we are not alone that they're really\h
allegedly is a non-human intelligence that's\h\h

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been engaging with this planet and that more\h
importantly the United States government has\h\h

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been involved in both the retrieval of\h
non-human technology I.E alien spacecraft\h\h

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and also in the attempt to reverse engineer it\h
and it's one of the most sensitive secrets in\h\h

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the U.S national security structure and Dave\h
grush with ironically the permission of the\h\h

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Department of Defense to speak about it uh gave\h
um gave a description an account of what he says\h\h

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he learned during his investigations as the UAP\h
task force investigator and I guess the reason why\h\h

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he's done that and the reason why he's chosen\h
to speak to millions of Americans is because\h\h

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he thinks you the public have the right to know\h
you need to know and it's very very important he\h\h

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believes that Congress now does its job and starts\h
asking the hard questions about the programs that\h\h

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he's now revealed the existence of and it's\h
also very important that the mainstream media\h\h

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lose its linger and latitude and actually start\h
asking questions and and digging and probing with\h\h

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investigative journalism to get to the bottom of\h
this mystery because as Dave grush told me in the\h\h

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preliminaries before this interview if he's lying\h
he goes to jail because he's given this evidence\h\h

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under oath to the Inspector General of the\h
intelligence service and he's also given it under\h\h

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oath to the Senate intelligence committee and the\h
house permanent select committee on intelligence\h\h

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so we are at a momentous moment in not\h
just American history but world history\h\h

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um the first ever very senior intelligence\h
official recently retired has gone public\h\h

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with the claim that we are not alone and I don't\h
quite know what I expected to happen Bryce but um\h\h

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I'll be honest I'm so exhausted at the moment I'm\h
just happy to see the back of it and um uh I hope\h\h

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that it has the effect that we all hope it does\h
in persuading the American public the Congress\h\h

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and the American Media to start asking the hard\h
questions yeah whoa I'm knocking things over here\h\h

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on my desk I you know I think uh realistically\h
when you look at the whole thing and how it's all\h\h

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gone down there would have been a hope that maybe\h
what grush said would be case closed and we'd all\h\h

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kind of go from that moment of okay now we know\h
what's going on let's get to the bottom of it\h\h

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Etc well that's that's dreaming obviously\h
uh people have not watched this in unison\h\h

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and said okay we're done uh but I it certainly\h
Advanced the discussion in a way uh I um I think\h\h

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I should just bring people up to date there were\h
uh two days where uh Ross and Dave Rush uh uh were\h\h

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actually did interviews uh one day was kind of a\h
pre-interview what we call the safety interview\h\h

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and then to make sure that we got it and then uh\h
on that day that you saw that interview that was\h\h

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news nation and I ended up you know getting to\h
see Dave for a couple of days having lunch with\h\h

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them things like that so I had a impression of the\h
guy as a man and I found him to be very credible\h\h

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and and personable but it was interesting to watch\h
your interview Ross as a viewer to just sit in the\h\h

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you know back in the in the chair and and let this\h
interview even though I've seen it seeing it live\h\h

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man that's something and of course they did the\h
wraparounds with the news Nation anchor and and\h\h

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then later brought in the other anchor and it all\h
felt like a pretty important event to me uh and\h\h

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and I found myself thinking it's a little\h
strange how some people say but where's\h\h

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the proof where's the photo where's the this\h
where's the that and I keep thinking to myself\h\h

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did anybody realistically think they would let\h
Dave grush out of the Pentagon with a piece of\h\h

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spacecraft or a photo of an alien or something\h
like that and I think it's important for us to\h\h

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talk about this because I'm up all the time\h
where's the proof is what I guess what people\h\h

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back in the uh the 80s we had a presidential\h
campaign and one of the candidates said to the\h\h

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other where's the beef right because that was a\h
commercial for Wendy's hamburgers well where's the\h\h

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beef in other words when people are saying okay\h
I listened to him he talks a good fight where's\h\h

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the proof let's answer that question where is\h
the proof right now okay what we know is that\h\h

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grush is constrained he's not allowed by virtue\h
of the fact that he's under an oath to protect the\h\h

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National Security of the United States he's not\h
allowed to reveal things that are classified top\h\h

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secret compartmented intelligence and it's clear\h
that the paperwork the photographs the individuals\h\h

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that he interviewed as part of his investigations\h
into the program into the Legacy crash retrieval\h\h

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program it's very very clear that those things\h
are classified they're protected by the title\h\h

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50 classification security classification which\h
is the the classification that protects special\h\h

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access programs America's biggest secrets and\h
covert action and so he may very well I know he\h\h

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does he'd love to scream out more of what he knows\h
but what he has done and we keep on making this\h\h

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point and it's kind of lost on a lot of people he\h
has testified in detail to the Inspector General\h\h

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of the intelligence service about exactly what\h
he knows the things that are classified because\h\h

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the Inspector General of the intelligence service\h
of course enjoys that kind of compartmented very\h\h

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high security clearance and moreover and this is a\h
point I emphasized in the interview post show and\h\h

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it's completely lost on people like Mick West who\h
keeps on rabbiting on the the press release from\h\h

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the lawyers for Mr grush the press release from Mr\h
grush's lawyers is utterly irrelevant because the\h\h

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Inspector General of the intelligence community\h
did an investigation into Mr grush's reprisal\h\h

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complaint and in the course of that investigation\h
we know that Witnesses came forward word from the\h\h

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Legacy crash retrieval program and gave evidence\h
under oath to the Inspector General a testing not\h\h

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only to the veracity of Mr grush's claims about\h
the unfair appraisals and the illegalities that\h\h

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have been committed against him but also\h
to the existence of the crash retrieval\h\h

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reverse engineering program so this evidence that\h
everybody is clamoring for is with one of the most\h\h

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important oversight agencies in the United States\h
intelligence Community the Inspector General of\h\h

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the intelligence community and it's also with\h
the Senate Select Committee for intelligence\h\h

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and it's also with the house permanent Select\h
Committee for intelligence to hipsy so both\h\h

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of those key oversight committees in the house\h
as much as they are allowed to because there's\h\h

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constraints on who in the committee can actually\h
hear this evidence because it's so sensitive\h\h

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they've been briefed into what Mr grush knows so\h
I can appreciate everybody wants the blueprints\h\h

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for the tr3b as fast as possible and they you\h
know they they are normally being flippant here\h\h

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but if Mr grush's allegations are correct there is\h
technology in the possession of the US government\h\h

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that is very highly classified and whilst he's\h
allowed to reveal the existence of that technology\h\h

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he's not allowed to detail a lot of the stuff\h
about how he knows about it and it's kind of odd\h\h

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it's a double standard price because if you think\h
about the very people who are carping on now in\h\h

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the mainstream media about how there's no evidence\h
there's nothing to prove this and I'm talking here\h\h

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about some of the establishment newspapers in the\h
United States those same establishment newspapers\h\h

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were quite happy to be licks bittles to the\h
intelligence establishment back in the early\h\h

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2000s when there were false claims being spread\h
by the intelligence community that Saddam Hussein\h\h

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had weapons of mass destruction and my country\h
Australia and yours went off to war in Iraq on the\h\h

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false pretext that there were wmds in the Iraqi\h
desert somewhere and we did that on the basis\h\h

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of supposedly informed Anonymous intelligence\h
sources whom it subsequently emerged had no\h\h

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bloody idea what they were talking about they\h
were wrong so you've got this double standard\h\h

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in the media where the media on one hand appears\h
very happy all time to Rabbit the assertions made\h\h

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by unnamed intelligence officials but because it's\h
this controversial subject of uaps they go oh no\h\h

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no we can't possibly investigate David grush's\h
allegations because well you know there's no\h\h

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evidence no well they were quite happy to Champion\h
and be licks middles to the march to war in 2003\h\h

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um 2002 and the reality is they didn't have\h
evidence back then either but they were quite\h\h

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happy to unquestioningly run the assertions made\h
by the intelligence establishment and what I'm\h\h

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saying is people need to start bringing in their\h
critical faculties and and asking the question\h\h

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well of course of course the government's going\h
to try and keep this quiet of course they're\h\h

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going to try and sit on this information and the\h
only way that's going to change is with pressure\h\h

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you know I'm really glad that you got a chance to\h
do the extended Play version that's the director's\h\h

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cut folks of the question where's the beef where's\h
the proof um just so people who maybe didn't see\h\h

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it or or saw part of it there were really two\h
hours we're talking about the first hour was\h\h

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the special called we are not alone and that was\h
the one that focused intensely on Ross's interview\h\h

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with the Whistleblower David grush then there\h
was an hour afterwards that was a news Nation\h\h

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sort of reaction if you will to the first hour um\h
and uh Ross it did make me smile to see that that\h\h

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yes they went out and pulled into bunker Mick West\h
and put him on TV and you had to talk about proof\h\h

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with him there you know and it was interesting\h
to me because uh people like Mick West and I\h\h

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I don't he's not the only debunker out there but\h
he is certainly the most visible he gets the most\h\h

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air time you know people like Mick often get to\h
comment on videos so Jeremy Corbell will put out\h\h

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a video and Mick West will immediately be called\h
to sort of debunk the videos of being what it what\h\h

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it is this was a whole different thing here is\h
a guy as you just discussed highly qualified and\h\h

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as I like to say a guy that was trusted to work\h
on the presidential daily briefing and and Curry\h\h

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it to the uh the the Oval Office so here's a guy\h
who's speaking from experience what's mixed take\h\h

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going to be and it was interesting because not\h
only did he try to float this uh in the show but\h\h

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he didn't get to fully get through it but in his\h
tweets he's basically saying well you know the guy\h\h

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um heard people tell him whatever they wanted\h
to tell him and he believed it all but it's all\h\h

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lies so he's he's had to move from people have\h
misinterpreted um what they're seeing with their\h\h

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own eyes on a screen to well he may have said all\h
that but he was lying because he without intent\h\h

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that people had lied to him and he's passing\h
on lies so I just was kind of curious what was\h\h

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your what was your feeling Ross as you were on\h
the air and and there's Mick being trotted out\h\h

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with that I could see because you and I have\h
had what have we done like 40 hours of this\h\h

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kind of thing I know when you're dying to get in\h
a conversation because I do it too you know you're\h\h

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kind of we're all you know we're trying to get\h
in there and I could see I literally could see\h\h

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you standing there freezing in your long coat and\h
tie but still wanting to leap through the screen\h\h

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and answer what Mick West was saying so what\h
was that like look let me just say off the top\h\h

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I actually like Mick West I think it's important\h
that we have Skeptics I do think those sometimes\h\h

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mix Strays more into the default debunker mode yes\h
I.E he's less scientific and rigorous on occasion\h\h

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but I think he has performed a very useful service\h
in holding um some ufology commentators feet to\h\h

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the fire on issues where they're perhaps a little\h
wobbly and myself included I think it's important\h\h

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I think their B skepticism it's important but\h
in this case I knew that Mick was going to jump\h\h

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down our throats about the statement that was\h
put out by Mr crusher's Attorneys at compass\h\h

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rose in Washington DC and so I had already spoken\h
to David grush to find out the real story and I'm\h\h

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not allowed to reveal the whole story just yet\h
but I know that it's not true that Mr McCullough\h\h

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Charles McCullough is dissociating himself from\h
his client Mr McCullough is an exemplary former\h\h

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public servant he's also a lawyer that takes his\h
role as an attorney very very seriously indeed let\h\h

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me just say the public will be seeing something\h
on this very very shortly but frankly mix wrong\h\h

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anyway in attaching significance to the fact that\h
the lawyers said that they'd been misrepresented\h\h

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because no misrepresentations were made no\h
representations were made by me about the lawyers\h\h

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or indeed by Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal what\h
we did make representations about and this is a\h\h

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classic straw man argument it's Paul postulating\h
something that we never even postulated\h\h

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what we did talk about was what the Inspector\h
General made a finding about and the lawyers did\h\h

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not make an assertion about what it was that the\h
inspector general of the intelligence Community\h\h

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found and what Mick doesn't know but I do know\h
because I've spoken to people about it not just\h\h

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Mr grush is that there are multiple witnesses\h
that gave evidence to the Inspector General\h\h

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of the intelligence community in support of Mr\h
grush's claim and some of those Witnesses came\h\h

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from the Legacy UAP crash retrieval program\h
Direct Witnesses not hearsay direct evidence\h\h

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so it infuriates me and frustrates me when I hear\h
misrepresentations being made by a debunker on a\h\h

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national TV program and I thought it was important\h
to pick him up on it I do apologize though for\h\h

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rolling my eyes I didn't realize I was on camera\h
at the time but apparently somebody's somebody's\h\h

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told me off on my phone on my Twitter feed for\h
rolling my eyes when Nick came in but you know\h\h

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first of all you were on camera most because a lot\h
of the times it was a split screen of four people\h\h

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so even when everyone else is talking you you were\h
there listen uh enough of uh the debunking aspect\h\h

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of it because it was a small tiny little piece of\h
it I did want to clear one thing up um prior to\h\h

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the special and prior to the the piece that came\h
after it um I did a short interview in their uh\h\h

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news Nation Prime show and the anchorwoman there\h
actually in the intro I didn't catch it until I\h\h

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saw it later uh was saying and there's even uh\h
the idea that there's a a retrieved uh crash\h\h

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wreckage with no a retrieved craft singular and\h
I think we need to pick up on that because David\h\h

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not only implied in your interview that there were\h
more but there's also I believe is it Schellenberg\h\h

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um another research yeah yeah very very respected\h
journalist right who was talking about a dozen of\h\h

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them so it's not a secret so I just wanted to say\h
whether he said it on camera or not I remember\h\h

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talking to Dave grush and saying well how many are\h
you talking about and his answer whether it was on\h\h

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camera or during lunch or something he said double\h
figures so I mean folks let's think about that\h\h

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um yes it's been a number of years uh 80 or 90\h
years depending on whether you start the clock\h\h

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with the Italian crash or with Roswell but that's\h
a long time and uh you know that that doesn't mean\h\h

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there's they're crashing every five minutes so\h
yeah a dozen of them gives us something to study\h\h

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and as you pointed out in the special there's\h
probably a craft that the Russians have and\h\h

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that the Chinese have so uh it's about to get\h
very very interesting as we kick that rock over\h\h

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you know the thing and I think the host of the\h
news Nation special the follow-up analysis show\h\h

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made this point multiple times I think the biggest\h
thing for a lot of people is the ontological shock\h\h

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that the fact that grush really did Dave Crush has\h
really made some quite extraordinary allegations\h\h

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and the one that I was holding my breath and I was\h
I was listening to it on the ifb audio as it was\h\h

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going out I couldn't see it but I was listening to\h
it it's the moment when Dave is asked have people\h\h

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been killed to protect this Secret and people\h
wonder why there's a resistance to revealing the\h\h

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existence of the program when you have a former\h
very senior intelligence official saying that his\h\h

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understanding his strong suspicion is that there\h
have been people who have been murdered to protect\h\h

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this secret we're talking here about crimes Bryce\h
and then when people ask me what am I scared of\h\h

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that's what I was scared of I'm scared of\h
the fact that that there are grave crimes\h\h

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committed allegedly by people in the executive\h
arm of government and possibly also in a private\h\h

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Aerospace contractor to conceal this Secret what\h
have they done what have they done any is it any\h\h

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surprise that they don't want to talk about it not\h
to me it was interesting though uh when I did that\h\h

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uh first interview in the uh a couple hours before\h
the the special that's the very first question the\h\h

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anchor women asked me was about people getting\h
killed so I mean that really you know shot up as\h\h

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something that they're very interested in and\h
obviously boy that leaves some digging to be\h\h

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done I did want to talk about ontological shock\h
though because the anchor uh of the um what are\h\h

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we going to call this there's the special and\h
then there's the follow-up I don't know what\h\h

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the post show analysis he said several times first\h
of all I like the guy uh Brian and I'm blanking on\h\h

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his last name inton or uh do you remember sorry\h
Brian uh but he said three times I think how he\h\h

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part of the problem was he just couldn't seem to\h
get his brain around you know yes he hears people\h\h

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say these things but they're so shocking it's just\h
you want to not believe it and I I understand that\h\h

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I've experienced that so many times in the last\h
couple of weeks particularly this last week as\h\h

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people have been talking about it where um I will\h
tell people what's happening and and so forth and\h\h

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they'll listen politely but there's no follow-up\h
question a lot of times because they're just not\h\h

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prepared to hear about Crash wreckage and intact\h
craft and bodies and reverse engineering it's\h\h

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just too much when you're talking about well I\h
saw this light in the sky and it was impossible\h\h

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somehow that's not ontological shock people can\h
relate to that but the specificity of what Dave\h\h

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Crush has said in your special tonight was was\h
a lot and I think it's going to take a while for\h\h

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people to process this and that may be exactly\h
what's going on right now yeah I found Brian\h\h

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inton's um it's quite interesting because um I\h
think he was speaking for a lot of people in his\h\h

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audience it is it's a very very confronting thing\h
to hear a person making these extraordinary claims\h\h

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and I think you and I have heard them so many\h
times now you and I must have discussed this in\h\h

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secret so many times in the last month or so and\h
the the simple reality is there's an adjustment\h\h

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that's going to have to take place yes if grush\h
is telling the truth and I do I think he is\h\h

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telling the truth and I've satisfied myself with\h
independent sources that he's telling the truth\h\h

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if he is telling the truth it means that this\h
planet has been deceived for many many decades\h\h

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we've been lied to there's been a a cover-up we've\h
been told to ridicule something that was in fact\h\h

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very very real the human race has been the victim\h
of the most extraordinary disinformation operation\h\h

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and it's been an incredibly successful one I\h
mean it's such a taboo subject that even now\h\h

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as people are being told by a former very senior\h
intelligence official that it's real that there\h\h

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are nhi non-human intelligence that yes\h
we do have craft that's the allegation\h\h

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the very time that we're telling that I\h
think people are going to have trouble\h\h

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processing it and I'm not surprised at all\h
that people are still going to be skeptical\h\h

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but that's the issue the issue is um we know\h
for our fact that he has made these allegations\h\h

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under oath and that they have been verified as\h
credible by the Inspector General and we know\h\h

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for a fact that he's given evidence to them under\h
oath to the various house committees and so on\h\h

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that basis alone it's incumbent on the American\h
people now to start rattling the cage and asking\h\h

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their government what are you hiding and why are\h
you hiding it on that topic um obviously you did\h\h

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a lot more media than I did I did a couple\h
of things but two stand out to me this week\h\h

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I talked to Chris Cuomo who's on news nation\h
and I talked to Laura Ingram who's on Fox news\h\h

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now these are people that charitably are on\h
different sides of the political spectrum and\h\h

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let's not even get into that but they both kind\h
of said the same thing in their questions and\h\h

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statements surrounding this interview that\h
the interview I did with each of them which\h\h

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was both of them mirrored what you were just\h
saying where there's these accusations that\h\h

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the government hasn't been fully forthcoming and\h
both of them took the position well enough of that\h\h

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you know let's there's an easy answer to all\h
of this let's just investigate it like we\h\h

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would anything else and let's get started now\h
they're impatience uh with more nonsense and\h\h

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Dilly dallying about this thing was was palpable\h
and I thought it was kind of refreshing because\h\h

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that's certainly not the trace uh the the way\h
all news goes and I give you another example\h\h

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um I I can't I can't remember it's late at\h
night folks but I can't remember the name\h\h

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of the president's press secretary um Val gene\h
or some uh something I I'm I'm sorry it's late\h\h

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but she was asked about this this week and\h
she said well when Karin Jean-Pierre yeah

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I'm completely whatever but what I thought was\h
interesting is this woman said I uh and and she's\h\h

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sort of had a smile and therefore uh the reporter\h
had the sort of smile back and she said well you\h\h

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know you'll have to ask the Department of Defense\h
about that and I thought what kind of statement\h\h

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is that the press secretary gets up there day\h
after day after day and talks about all kinds of\h\h

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things the press secretary talks about pardoning\h
turkeys at Thanksgiving for crying out loud why is\h\h

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the press secretary saying that that's something\h
that this White House is going to laugh and smirk\h\h

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about and refuse to answer the question I I more\h
importantly more importantly more importantly why\h\h

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are the media complicit in letting her absolutely\h
with that because so this is the problem this is\h\h

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where I think the media starts needing to hold the\h
feet to the fire I mean quite a number of people\h\h

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have talked to me about the fact that um that\h
era of Great American investigative journalism\h\h

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is very historic it's very in the past but you\h
know there are there are some great American\h\h

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investigative journalists I'm friends with some of\h
them they're good people yeah what's happening in\h\h

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America I think is there's with the with the UFO\h
subject the UAP subject there's almost a kind of\h\h

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a fear a taboo a stigma people think oh my God I\h
can't touch that subject let's just laugh about\h\h

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it nervously and it's really it's quite ridiculous\h
because we now know beyond any shadow of a doubt\h\h

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that there is at least a prima facie case to\h
suggest that the government is involved in a\h\h

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monstrous cover-up and it's quite fun I love\h
it that's hilarious to me as a journalist that\h\h

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people aren't following it and I mean to me that\h
I just want to put another boot up the butt of the\h\h

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um the uh was it the New York Times it was the\h
New York Times what's his name rossit he certainly\h\h

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doubted it um there was a there was an op-ed piece\h
by um check all our names uh out from this name\h\h

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your exhausted and I am exhausted so it's okay\h
we get a pass tonight but no there was an op-ed\h\h

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piece by a a guy from The New York Times which\h
came out the last couple of days and we were all\h\h

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holding our breath waiting for the killer punch\h
to try and attack Dave brush's credibility and\h\h

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hilariously what they did was attempt a slur by\h
linking the very controversial Bob Lazar with the\h\h

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allegations of Dave rush and I I've remained very\h
agnostic on Bob lazar's claims in my book and in\h\h

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subsequent commentary because I do think Lazar has\h
lied about his educational record and there are\h\h

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inconsistencies in his story that make me strongly\h
doubt that he would ever have been given a\h\h

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security classification that would have given him\h
access to Area 51 and to see alleged craft that\h\h

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have been retrieved by the US government and so\h
what the New York Times did was try and Associate\h\h

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that quite easily discredited figure with grush\h
and that wasn't journalism that was just a smear\h\h

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job that was a grubby little smear job and the\h
the thing that really shocks me is if that's the\h\h

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best they can come up with it means they're really\h
scrambling and we're in a really weird situation\h\h

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where the mainstream papers in your country have\h
dropped the ball and look the same thing happens\h\h

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in my country you know I was I was invited on\h
to a TV show on another TV network other than\h\h

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the one that I work on and I wisely elected not to\h
go on it because ultimately what happened was the\h\h

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um the TV show did the usual X-Files theme\h
and ridiculed the whole subject matter lots of\h\h

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titters off off camera and you just think I don't\h
want to be part of that anymore we don't have to\h\h

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tolerate that kind of nonsensical journalism\h
anymore belittling the subject is no longer\h\h

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legitimate because we are now in an era where even\h
the U.S government admits that this phenomenon is\h\h

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real anomalous and unexplained I mean even even\h
the um uh the head of Arrow Dr Sean Kirkpatrick\h\h

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has talked about anomalous metal Spears moving\h
in an extraordinarily unusual Maneuvers I mean\h\h

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at what point do people go gee there really is\h
something to this so I think we should probably\h\h

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give a shout out to the folks at news Nation\h
who I thought uh rather courageously Embrace\h\h

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telling this story uh devoted a lot of air time\h
to expanding on it and made the special uh an\h\h

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event by building the content before and after\h
it and at least the contacts I had with the the\h\h

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folks at news Nation I didn't see any snickering\h
or goofing about I I felt that they sort of took\h\h

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it head on so hats off good good job hey you know\h
I agree can I just emphasize one thing I mean I\h\h

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really liked what Brian intern said at the end of\h
that program where he actually said look you know\h\h

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what we've tried to do is we've tried to take\h
this issue objectively and without ridicule you\h\h

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know we've tried to engage with the subject and\h
treat people with respect and that's what I really\h\h

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admire about what news Nations done they're a\h
small news organization they're not one of the big\h\h

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hitters but they're hungry and you could sense the\h
pride and the hunger for the story that they had\h\h

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in their Newsroom I was really touched by the kind\h
of comments that I got coming down the earpiece\h\h

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during the ad breaks from people in The Newsroom\h
who were clearly excited and thrilled that their\h\h

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network has this story and that it's breaking\h
news that's that's a fantastic thing that's all\h\h

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journalists ever want to do it was inspiring\h
to me and you know I was just gonna say I\h\h

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we can wrap this up pretty soon because I think\h
everybody needs some sleep but we can come back\h\h

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this week with a little more uh time to consider\h
this and and talk a little bit more and extend\h\h

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some of these things but one of the things we\h
did right before we went on is um I asked the\h\h

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people on Twitter if you have any questions you\h
want us to handle send them to us so you know\h\h

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Ross do you want to play speed chess here and I\h
just hit you with some questions and we keep them\h\h

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fast and short and uh and then say goodnight and\h
get out of here okay so here's a couple of them\h\h

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uh that I think were raised by the special that\h
you were doing and then the questions that were\h\h

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asked afterwards the one that really struck home\h
to me was is Dave grush safe you think he's safe\h\h

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I think you use no I think he's a lot safer now\h
that he's taken a public position um there are\h\h

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things that have happened to Dave that aren't very\h
nice his home's been broken into and he's been\h\h

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targeted with surveillance and I think he's been\h
harassed and um I've got a pretty good idea who\h\h

329
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the people are that have been doing harassing it's\h
quite extraordinary it's probably not a government\h\h

330
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:49,740
agency it's probably a private contractor more on\h
that later wow so all right well there's okay I\h\h

331
00:33:49,740 --> 00:33:53,400
was just going to say are you going to be looking\h
into that I guess the answer is yes here's another\h\h

332
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:59,580
are you going to be looking into it question uh\h
you raised in that special that the Vatican has\h\h

333
00:33:59,580 --> 00:34:05,940
known about this for a while uh what should happen\h
about that should the Vatican how did how do you\h\h

334
00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:11,760
get the Vatican legitimately on the record\h
about what they know about the UFO situation\h\h

335
00:34:12,420 --> 00:34:16,680
well one of the things that I think is the red\h
flag with the Vatican is that a few years ago the\h\h

336
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:22,080
Vatican astronomer made a very public statement\h
yes that we are all God's children whatever we\h\h

337
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,460
are if we're another species we're still God's\h
children and that the Christian faith they\h\h

338
00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:31,800
emphasized is not incompatible with the belief\h
in Aliens and I think the vatican's been aware\h\h

339
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:37,620
of this issue since at least the second world war\h
when the magenta craft was recovered and I think\h\h

340
00:34:37,620 --> 00:34:42,960
that the Vatican apparently of my good friend\h
Diana Welsh kasoka the Theologian Professor has\h\h

341
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:48,480
apparently gone to the Vatican library in the past\h
and she's told me that there are enormous archives\h\h

342
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,920
in the Vatican still to be released where they've\h
been studying the phenomena through millennia\h\h

343
00:34:54,060 --> 00:34:59,040
it is that is pretty amazing but on\h
the other hand it makes good sense\h\h

344
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,900
particularly if that first crash was\h
in uh Italy as as he said all right\h\h

345
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:12,420
um uh will there be interviews to follow with\h
people who literally have first person knowledge\h\h

346
00:35:12,420 --> 00:35:19,380
the people who say yes I worked on this program\h
I touched that craft I saw this body are are we\h\h

347
00:35:19,380 --> 00:35:27,240
going to get that kind of thing coming anytime\h
soon yes okay let's uh leave it at that because\h\h

348
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:34,020
and keep well you know you got it's TV you\h
gotta tease a little bit okay um also is there\h\h

349
00:35:34,020 --> 00:35:39,360
any information that it was implied that there\h
might have been agreements between humans and\h\h

350
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:45,960
this the nhi is there any specific information on\h
any agreements that may or may not have been made\h\h

351
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:53,040
uh not from Dave um but of course you and I can\h
both speculate about the fact that there's long\h\h

352
00:35:53,040 --> 00:36:00,660
been in UFO Mythology stories of a meeting at\h
Holloman Air Force Base uh depends what year\h\h

353
00:36:00,660 --> 00:36:05,160
depending on what story you hear but the\h
best one I've heard is around about 1966\h\h

354
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,280
um this wasn't one where a president was involved\h
but this involved military officials allegedly\h\h

355
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:17,280
beating non-human intelligences coming off a craft\h
I'm not in a position to be able to assert that\h\h

356
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:24,660
I have sources that say to me that this is a true\h
incident um but yeah I was as amazed as everybody\h\h

357
00:36:24,660 --> 00:36:32,700
else when I heard Dave confirm the fact that he\h
was talking about agreements with aliens and more\h\h

358
00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:37,380
importantly it's quite something to read it in the\h
dopsa file to actually see that the government the\h\h

359
00:36:37,380 --> 00:36:44,160
defense office of pre-publication Security review\h
actually authorized Mr grush to talk about that\h\h

360
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:50,340
and just to make this point again Bryce I really\h
want to drive this home there are people in the\h\h

361
00:36:50,340 --> 00:36:54,900
defense and intelligence Community who are good\h
people you know not everybody in the defense\h\h

362
00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:59,700
and intelligence Community are villains in this\h
matter there are really good people who've taken\h\h

363
00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:05,700
the position that there really is no good reason\h
to keep this secret for another 80 years and so\h\h

364
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:10,740
that's why I think in part the dopsa review\h
happened but they're not making it easy for\h\h

365
00:37:10,740 --> 00:37:14,880
us they've obviously known that Dave was going to\h
go public I don't think they knew about my team\h\h

366
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,320
the interview but they certainly knew that Leslie\h
Kane and Ralph Blumenthal were working on a story\h\h

367
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:27,900
and I guess I was expecting more of a blowback\h
I was expecting a more definitive attack on Mr\h\h

368
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:35,400
grush but there isn't one well and um I'm quite\h
amazed actually that that in the weeks since this\h\h

369
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:41,460
story has been out um nobody has really lighted\h
love on his credibility and in fact there's been\h\h

370
00:37:41,460 --> 00:37:48,960
a conga line of friends of his who've come out in\h
support of him on social media and in the Leslie\h\h

371
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:54,540
Kane Ralph Blumenthal article testifying as to\h
not only his credibility but as to the truth of\h\h

372
00:37:54,540 --> 00:38:01,800
what he says as Carol Nell former colonel colonel\h
has testified we are indeed not alone it's quite\h\h

373
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,480
extraordinary and people keep on missing that when\h
Mick West talks about how oh there's no evidence\h\h

374
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:12,780
the simple fact is there is evidence there are\h
people on the record we send people to jail on\h\h

375
00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:18,780
the basis of witness evidence you know hearsay\h
evidence on occasion is admissible in a court of\h\h

376
00:38:18,780 --> 00:38:26,820
law so so the notion oh there's no evidence [\h__\h]\h
I'm calling it [\h__\h] and and more importantly the\h\h

377
00:38:26,820 --> 00:38:31,740
evidence is there before the various Senate and\h
House committees and before the Inspector General\h\h

378
00:38:31,740 --> 00:38:36,960
and if the Congress wants to do its job properly\h
it can start extracting that evidence in open\h\h

379
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,940
public hearings and the public can hear about it\h
for the first time I know a lot of what it is not\h\h

380
00:38:41,940 --> 00:38:47,640
from Dave grush but from other people and boy\h
I really want the public to know because there\h\h

381
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:55,080
is no good reason the public needs to know they\h
do need to know you know Ross I look forward to\h\h

382
00:38:55,080 --> 00:39:01,980
Turning you doing an impression of Mick Westing\h
there's no evidence into a gif that would be\h\h

383
00:39:01,980 --> 00:39:07,560
that would be insane I hope somebody please don't\h
encourage people that's my wife is already annoyed\h\h

384
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:13,380
my wife is already annoyed that apparently I swear\h
occasionally and apparently okay all right don't\h\h

385
00:39:13,380 --> 00:39:20,940
make that gift to anybody okay here's a serious\h
one though uh as as you and I have stated and\h\h

386
00:39:20,940 --> 00:39:26,220
people are interested in the process too the the\h
sort of the journalistic process and as we've\h\h

387
00:39:26,220 --> 00:39:32,040
said you actually got a chance to talk to Dave\h
on camera twice on May 8th here in Los Angeles\h\h

388
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:38,220
is kind of that safety backup interview and then\h
the news Nation interview on May 9th so the so\h\h

389
00:39:38,220 --> 00:39:47,820
that means you had the guy on tape fully on May\h
9th widened news nation and you go forward faster\h\h

390
00:39:47,820 --> 00:39:57,300
why allow um the debrief to sort of go first why\h
did that happen look part of it is I've got huge\h\h

391
00:39:57,300 --> 00:40:04,140
respect for Leslie and Ralph uh Blumenthal um I\h
I think it was important to have their written\h\h

392
00:40:04,140 --> 00:40:09,480
story ready first um I think we were all hoping\h
to be perfectly honest they would have been able\h\h

393
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,980
to place it in the Washington Post which is a\h
well-known highly reputable newspaper of record\h\h

394
00:40:15,420 --> 00:40:21,120
um we did think at one stage about scooping Leslie\h
and Ralph but I'm a nice bloke you know the bottom\h\h

395
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,680
line is we were talking to Dave all at the same\h
time I guess we could have done if we'd wanted\h\h

396
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:31,920
to but um I'm not really interested in playing\h
silly games by trying to scoop colleagues I'm\h\h

397
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:37,320
more interested in responsibly getting the\h
information out there and and I thought that\h\h

398
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:43,500
the best way to do it was to contemporaneously\h
broadcast at the same time as Leslie and Ralph's\h\h

399
00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:49,800
debrief article came out listen it was almost go\h
ahead and please finish no I was disappointed that\h\h

400
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,060
it went in the debrief even though I've got\h
huge respect for my colleagues at the debrief\h\h

401
00:40:54,660 --> 00:41:01,020
but to me it's a failure of mainstream media that\h
the Washington Post dragged the chain they didn't\h\h

402
00:41:01,020 --> 00:41:05,520
knock it back completely but they dragged the\h
chain and delayed their decision on whether or\h\h

403
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:10,860
not to publish and um The New York Times Did\h
knock it back which is a decision I'm sure\h\h

404
00:41:10,860 --> 00:41:17,460
that future history will show they will have\h
cause to regret um and uh I guess maybe the\h\h

405
00:41:17,460 --> 00:41:22,740
lesson of this whole experience this evening is\h
that they'll now realize that there are nimbler\h\h

406
00:41:22,740 --> 00:41:30,240
social media platforms like like ours there are\h
online platforms now that are in danger of making\h\h

407
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:36,120
the mainstream media irrelevant if it doesn't\h
start engaging with this issue and it isn't I\h\h

408
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:41,580
mean it depends on how you Define mainstream but\h
just for the record uh the keen and uh Blumenthal\h\h

409
00:41:41,580 --> 00:41:49,080
piece uh was was you know I don't know whether you\h
want to use the word past but the New York Times\h\h

410
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:56,220
had first look then uh The Washington Post had a\h
look then the hill had a book and then Politico\h\h

411
00:41:56,220 --> 00:42:02,880
had a look and for various reasons it didn't go\h
to any of those ended up on the debrief which is\h\h

412
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:09,060
you know kind of a strange commentary on exactly\h
what you've been talking about Ross how hard it is\h\h

413
00:42:09,060 --> 00:42:15,000
to get you know whether I mean New York Times\h
Washington Post that's sort of way up there\h\h

414
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:20,580
and they they wouldn't touch it then you have the\h
hill and Politico and they wouldn't or either they\h\h

415
00:42:20,580 --> 00:42:25,260
wouldn't touch it or they didn't feel they had\h
the time to do the work properly to get into it\h\h

416
00:42:25,980 --> 00:42:30,960
um listen um just about to get out of here but I\h
think there's a piece of housekeeping that people\h\h

417
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:36,300
are interested in a lot of people have said they\h
had a hard time watching it and that part of that\h\h

418
00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:43,680
is because news Nation um is is new and I've\h
had to explain many times to people if you want\h\h

419
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:49,560
to see anything on news Nation you have to go to\h
their website joinn.com and all that and you put\h\h

420
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:54,360
your web your ZIP code in it tells you where you\h
might be able to watch it but that doesn't apply\h\h

421
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:59,940
to us Australia for example and and other places\h
around the world it's been hard to watch so people\h\h

422
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:06,720
um are slowly getting to take a look first they\h
saw the clips then they've seen this special and\h\h

423
00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:13,980
there seems to be a lot of people that feel\h
like they are being I I don't know not quite\h\h

424
00:43:13,980 --> 00:43:18,180
ripped off but they they feel like they have\h
a right to watch the whole unedited thing\h\h

425
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:27,180
now that apparently will be happening um we're in\h
negotiations at the moment to find a platform for\h\h

426
00:43:27,180 --> 00:43:32,160
right um and it should it won't be the fools\h
I think three and a half hour news Nation\h\h

427
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:38,100
interview because there's lots of stops and starts\h
absolutely frankly we don't need in the edit but\h\h

428
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:44,880
no I think we could make a good 90 to 120 minute\h
um episode that could go out internationally and\h\h

429
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,840
domestically and that's underway at the moment\h
it just takes time to put that kind of thing\h\h

430
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:54,480
together as you see we recorded a month ago in\h
Los Angeles and it's now finally gone to Air and\h\h

431
00:43:54,480 --> 00:44:00,300
there's been an enormous amount of work in the\h
interim verifying checking and um these things\h\h

432
00:44:00,300 --> 00:44:04,560
take time you've just got to absolutely do it\h
I I think that's what I would say to the people\h\h

433
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,520
who there were a lot of people that said just put\h
the whole thing out there right now well that's\h\h

434
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,980
kind of not how it works because then it doesn't\h
get seen quite there's a rollout because you're\h\h

435
00:44:13,980 --> 00:44:20,580
looking for people who have as you said a platform\h
news Nation while they're new certainly use their\h\h

436
00:44:20,580 --> 00:44:27,360
platform form to full effect and uh and and the\h
debrief use their platform and if it rolls out it\h\h

437
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:34,080
may roll out to somebody else and that's good let\h
let people hear from Dave see Dave and uh make up\h\h

438
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:39,300
their own mind which I think a lot of people are\h
doing listen um I would just love to give you the\h\h

439
00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:45,120
opportunity since you have been uh well first of\h
all it's a story that I have watched you break\h\h

440
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:52,200
and it's been inspirational just to see you do\h
that kind of Journalism and the commitment you\h\h

441
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:59,460
brought to it and the follow-through and all\h
that tell me as you want from the moment the\h\h

442
00:44:59,460 --> 00:45:06,300
debrief article broke what's your life been like\h
this week what was that experience like for you\h\h

443
00:45:07,260 --> 00:45:13,560
yeah it's been non-stop yeah I mean I literally\h
flew back from Europe uh I think last time you\h\h

444
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:18,600
know I spoke I was in Paris and I flew back\h
from Europe on Wednesday and I've been falling\h\h

445
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:23,100
face first into my meal every night for the\h
last few nights because I'm so jet-lagged and\h\h

446
00:45:23,100 --> 00:45:28,320
um uh yeah it's been hard but you know what\h
I'm going to do now Bryce I'm going to grab\h\h

447
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:33,060
my wife who I've neglected a bit in the last few\h
weeks and we're going to go down to the local pub\h\h

448
00:45:33,060 --> 00:45:41,220
I'm going to get myself a beer and I'm going to\h
raise a glass to Dave grush I will I will join\h\h

449
00:45:41,220 --> 00:45:45,120
you in that even though for me I'll be going to\h
sleep it looks like it's daylight where you are\h\h

450
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:50,820
it's night time where I am and you know we're\h
gonna celebrate Dave by also doing something we\h\h

451
00:45:50,820 --> 00:45:58,560
haven't done in maybe the last 30 episodes which\h
is we're going to get out on time so okay again\h\h

452
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:05,940
Ross it was it was uh thrilling to be uh working\h
with you when this great event happened and I\h\h

453
00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:11,280
know it's going to lead to many more open doors so\h
congratulations to you but congratulations to the\h\h

454
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:16,320
world we've kicked it open a little bit now we're\h
moving forward and for right now I just say good\h\h